Thursday, March 30, 2006

jehovah

i am always very kind and conversational to the jehovah's witnesses. they come around every so often, giving me things to read and reading me inspirational passages from the bible. i really don't mind. they are respectful and nice. the two that usually show up, that is. we will call them suzie and lashonda.

today, lashonda was missing. and suzie showed up with a new person. we will call her petunia (that's right, like porky pig's girlfriend).

the fire alarm sirens are being 'tested' today, so when we can't really sustain a normal conversation level with them in the hallway and me in my doorway (which is the typical custom), i ask if they'd like to come in.

i mean, come ON. now you KNOW i'm nice. nobody invites these people into their homes.

it was all normal and good, and here is basically how everything got out of control very quickly.

suzie: well, how do you know your science books are true? didn't you read them to learn science?

cq: yes, but their ideas are repeatable. that is, i can take any idea in there and demonstrate that it works. and that is how i have learned science. you start off in the books as a springboard, but you then validate big ideas by experimenting and showing yourself that they work.

petunia: well, you can do that with the bible, too.

cq: really? please go ahead and tell me what experiment i can perform to validate a portion of the bible.

suzie: well have you ever read the bible?

cq: not all of it. parts. but not nearly all. it's boring.

petunia: it is SO not boring! it's inspiring!

cq: well, you have the right to feel that way and i have the right to feel that it's boring. i'm sure some people find science books boring, and that's fine, too.

petunia: well you can prove things in the bible like with your science books.

cq: yeah, you said. how can you do that? i'd love to see it.

petunia: well, it's like... i mean... you know, you really just have to read it. it's like a puzzle. you need to see how all the little pieces it together to make one big picture.

cq: yeah. i'm sure. okay. thanks.

suzie: well, we can test it by seeing if the advice in it applies to ALL people, because then it would be from god.

cq: or it could be from a person who really wants people to be good to each other.

petunia: well if you were a secretary, and your boss told you to type up this memo, and you wrote it up, would those be your words, or his?

cq: they would be his words that i typed...

petunia: and thus god's words were delivered to us through man as secretary.

cq: but you can't know that. you can't ever really completely know anything. i mean, don't you think it's even possible that someone wrote a book in the bible just because life on earth is crappy and he wanted to make people feel better about it?

petunia: no. absolutely not.

cq: see, i have a problem with 'absolutely not.' i think it's very troublesome to speak so confidently about the impossibility of something.

petunia: well, you just have to read the whole thing, and then you'd see.

then we get into a conversation about whether the world is getting better. they ask if the world is getting better, and i say in some respects, yes, it is. petunia was upset because apparently the answer to this question should have maybe involved the words "hell" and "handbasket." she tries to demonstrate for me that the world is actually much, much worse.

petunia: there are wars, diseases, kids bringing guns to school, murders, drugs...

cq: sure, well, when you put it like that...

somehow they talked about dying and stuff and i mentioned that i didn't believe people had to die but they could live forever if they wanted to. they misunderstood. they thought i meant some afterlife thing. nope, i mean, really, people don't have to die. i told them i think the reasons that people die can be overcome. i said people usually choose to die.

petunia: so people choose to get cancer?

cq: no, people choose to DIE from cancer.

petunia: you think you can live forever? for real?

cq: i said i just think it's possible that the reasons people die can be overcome. i think people get tired and bored so they give up, and die. and i also think we are expected to die. so we do. because everyone else has.

petunia: well i don't have to die.

cq: so you can live forever, then.

petunia: i believe i will live forever in the afterlife that god has created for us.

cq: well, that's nice. that's not what i mean, though.

and so basically i explain again and petunia, that's right, porky pig's girlfriend, LAUGHS AT ME. and the follows up with "i don't mean to laugh, but... you certainly have some interesting ideas."

cq: and so do you, but i'm not laughing at you. and i'm certainly not going to laugh at you in your own home, after being invited in after an unsolicited knock at the door. one might perceive such a thing as incredibly rude.

and so i am angry with petunia. should she show up again, i will ask her how she thinks she can fit in the eternal life. i mean, according to her own religion, 2,000 souls is the capcity of heaven. i'm sure more than 2,000 people have died before her. how will she prove to god that she is better, and that he should eject someone to make room for her? and how does she know that her spot is forever secure, that no other better soul will come along and have HER booted as she may have done to someone else?

bleh. i don't believe in god, and you do. fine. but don't laugh at me. that's rude. and besides, your idea is no less laughable than mine. at least i didn't read mine in a book.

11 comments:

mtw said...

Religion interests me. I don't believe right now, but I'd like to. I should probably start with reading the bible.

I think it's nice you asked them in to talk. I'm always nice to witnesses who show up at my door (which rarely happens) because, like you, I think they are generally respectful, nice, and also sincere, and I appreciate that.

I'm curious why you asked them in? Do you enjoy learning about their beliefs? Do you enjoy learning about the beliefs of other religions as well?

Just so it's clear (since my question may seem odd), please don't read anything into it, I'm just curious.

mm said...

Couple of comments; one, I think it's really nice of you to talk to them. It never hurts to learn more about anything. Two, one thing I'd hate to see happen (and I don't think it has here) is for you (or anyone) to judge an entire organization, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, based on an experience with one person. Petunia was definitely rude, and I couldn't help compare her with times I've laughed when completely inappropriate. I don't blame you for being upset and I think you *should* let her know how you felt, if she returns.

~Nutz said...

Wow! If she comes back I want a full report of her answers to those questions! Those are very good questions.

If there's only room for 2,000 souls and there are more than 2,000 Jehovah witnesses, why do they keep trying to recruit more? Don't they think it's possible that new person could take their place? ... or is that just what she thinks?

I'll admit, she was rude, but sometimes people laugh out of ignorance.

mm said...

FTR, it's my understanding that they believe that 144,000 will go to heaven. I've never heard 2,000 before. Regardless, it seems you have some good questions for them to answer.

Puffy said...

Next time, dress up as that mall Easter bunny.

BlindSlim~CSTL said...

Thankfully we dont get too many Jehova's Witnesses around here but I love your approach.

Aislinn Sirk said...

You could try the answering the door naked next time.

That's always good for a laugh.

HistoryDetective said...

Just out of curiosity: Did you actually tell Petunia that you thought she was rude for laughing at you, or did you just think it to yourself? What was her response?

You were a lot more gracious than I would have been.

kim (weltek) said...

I love that you chat with the jws. I always want to, but assume I'd be wasting my time.

I think you should just ask them a firing line of questions that confuse them. Like:
"Is Donald Trump going to heaven?"
"Does Michael Jackson have anything to do with the second coming of Christ?"
"What will Bush do when Armegeddon begins?"
"Where does pudding skin fit into your reglious philosophy?"
"Wouldn't SPAMMING be a more efficient way to deliver your message? I mean with gas prices & all..."
"So, if Jesus was running for president, would you vote?"

kim (weltek) said...

MTW-I know you didn't ask me, but if I were to ask a j.w. in to talk, it would be to share ideas, broadening both of our understanding of eachothers positions.

I find two things:
A) Youths often aren't exposed to a variety of political, religious or other beliefs...therefore it's important to share other perspectives. Not necessarily to change their beliefs, but for them to understand what others believe. I know it took me awhile to "get" what they believed. I don't agree with it, but I understand their belief system a little better since I worked with a j.w. Might I really be trying to convince them their beliefs are flawed, IMHO? Maybe a little. But I really would be wanting to hear more about what they believe & why.

B) If we all slam doors in their face, grumble or even noticably don't answer the door, that could be construed as being a nasty person that needs saving. I don't think that is what it means, but I think it could be a misunderstood action.

Just my perspective. I always answer the door & politely listen for a short bit to what they want to share. Then I always follow up with "Thank you, I'm very comfortable with my own religious beliefs, but I'm happy to take your literature to understand yours." I'd never invite them in. I'm not ready for that experience. Heck, I barely invite my minister MIL in. :-)

cq said...

well i answered MTW in email, but in case anyone else is wondering, i talk to them because i think religion is interesting. i also want to believe, but so far have not be able to. it's too conflicting to me to be a scientist and a believer. i know einstein did it, as did many others, but for me, it just doesn't jive. that being said, i think it never hurts to hear what people have to say. i find it especially curious that these people claim they are not trying to convince me of anything. i guess i just wonder what they want. they keep coming back. every week or two. they must want *something*, right? i'm just waiting to see what it is, i guess.

HD, i told her that last thing about her being rude. she reiterated that she was sorry for laughing (but she said it in a very insincere manner, IMHO), but that my ideas are very interesting to her.

yeah, right.

mm, i did not know it was 144,000. i always heard 2,000. i'll have to ask them next time. actually, if petunia shows up at my door, i will ask her that question, thank her for the answer, ask where in the bible it says so, then tell her she is not welcome in my home any more. thankyoudrivethru. have a nice friggin' day. ignorant.

it isn't fair to expect someone to listen to YOUR crap and be totally unwilling to listen to THEIR crap in return. if i told her i think the world is a giant experiment conducted by aliens, she shouldn't have laughed. like i said, some of their ideas may seem similarly moronic.

oh, well.